Examining Delta Scyther

Well, my apologies if this has gone into the wrong place, but honestly I couldn’t think of anything better to work with.

That aside, when I first started playing Insurgence and started picking up various Deltas with all the wide-eyed fascination of a kid exploring a Pokemon game for the very first time, I had to give Delta Scyther a bit of a critical eye since compared to regular Scyther, it seemed somewhat bad.

Ice/Fighting is actually a worse defensive typing than Bug/Flying, and Delta Scizor retains that Ice/Fighting typing without changing it up to something defensively better like its normal counterpart. Weak to Fighting, Fire, Steel, Psychic, Flying, and Fairy, there’s plenty of things that the mantis can’t switch in on without getting punished severely for its trouble. With Delta Scizor and Mega Delta Scizor retaining their base stats as well, evolving it looks like a bad idea.

Which coincidentally, it is.

Then I started to look at Delta Scyther more closely. Ice Cleats is a largely ignorable ability just because of the fact that Hail is still a sub-par weather condition that has almost nothing going for it, but Hustle happens to give a 50% power boost in exchange for 20% of your accuracy, making Delta Scyther’s physical blows somewhat unreliable. On the flip side, cranking that base 110 Attack stat’s end value up by 50% for almost nothing is something you can’t ignore. Plus, it’s base 105 Speed stat is above the base 100 baseline, meaning that while it can still be out-sped, it can still get the drop on plenty of threats on its own.

Not only that, Ice/Fighting is a fairly solid offensive typing that gives it an edge against Dragon, Grass, Flying, Ground, Rock, Ice, Steel, and Dark types and isn’t completely walled by much. Pokemon like Aegislash don’t care about its offensive abilities that much and can hit back for super-effective damage, but do need to watch out for coverage moves like Night Slash which still hit like a truck, even when hitting for neutral damage.

The fact that it can pick up Hone Claws naturally means that it can both give itself a bit more power as well as neatly patching up its Accuracy issues (assuming you’re running Hustle,) which is nice to have around since most of its most powerful STAB moves have some kind of drawback that makes them risky to use by themselves. (Cross Chop and Icicle Crash both have accuracy problems, Close Combat drops its already shaky defenses.)

Granted, with base 70/80/80 defenses Delta Scyther won’t get the chance to boost itself often, but if you’re facing Bug, Ice, or Dark types without appreciable coverage moves you can get a boost in.

EV-wise, I’m not sure how to optimize it so I just run 252 in Attack and Speed, with a Jolly nature to boot to get the most out of its speed tier since Hustle will be boosting its attack. Item-wise Choice Band/Scarf can be good for putting holes through walls and picking off weakened enemies, respectively. Life Orb will wear down Delta Scyther over time which can be a bit of a problem in terms of longevity but won’t lock it into one move.

If Super Luck is available, then Scope Lens becomes an option for a slightly risky high crit rate build.

Another thing to note is that while it doesn’t appreciate Stealth Rocks on its side of the field, it is one of the only Ice types in the game that isn’t weak to it either.

As a result, I tend to think that its best offensive moveset as of 1.1.7 is: -Icicle Crash -Close Combat/Cross Chop -Night Slash -Hone Claws

With one’s choice of Close Combat or Cross Chop boiling down to whether you want more power and run the risk of Delta Scyther getting revenge killed, or run the risk of missing more than you’d like.

Additionally, Ice Shard gives it some much needed priority, but it’s down to the individual player as to whether or not they want to slot it into their set.

Naturally, Delta Scyther has its issues as well. Its defenses aren’t the hottest across the board as previously mentioned and things like Talonflame will rip right through it, though it needs to watch for boosted Ice Shards if it’s not running Gale Wings. There aren’t too many Pokemon that can completely wall the mantis either as it can hit most Pokemon for at least neutral damage, but Pokemon like Chandelure and Aegislash can work if it isn’t running Night Slash or Shadow Claw.

If it is, then any exceptionally bulky physically defensive tank can at least give it some trouble.

Additionally, due to it being a speedy physical attacker, it hates both Burns and Paralysis, meaning anything with Prankster or a higher speed tier should start there when it comes to shutting this thing down. Things like Klefki and Talonflame can neuter either its speed or attack power respectively.

It also has the distinction of being weak to both Mach Punch AND Bullet Punch, so anything with decent physical power running one of those two moves (Mega Scizor, for example) will punch right through it without a care in the world.

Accuracy is also a problem without something to patch it up, as the 20% loss in accuracy due to Hustle hurts its ability to actually land blows.

Otherwise reliable moves like Night Slash, Icicle Spear, and Close Combat are reduced to just 80% accuracy.

Icicle Crash is knocked down to to just 78% accuracy.

Cross Chop is lowered to a paltry 64% accuracy.

If you’re willing to put up with that, however, Delta Scyther can be a powerful addition to your team.


Nice Post!

I try to fit in Delta Pokemon in a more competitive team as well so these were my thoughts of it: First of, as online battling is not possible in 1.1.7 anyways, I think it’s better to focus on 1.2, assuming every TM, Item etc. is implemented. Then, this is his possible Move Set (I think): http://battling.p-insurgence.com/pokemon/Delta_Scyther

Notable additions are: U-Turn, Roost, Swords dance, Stone Edge, Rock Slide You also did not mention Drain Punch, which might be viable. Eviolite might be a thing.

Hustle * Hone Claws = 1.5*1.5= 2.25x buffed Damage whereas Swords Dance give you straight 2x buffed Damage but you would not miss on Accuracy if you are not yet in a position to set up/sweep, giving you overall more reliability.

Also, Aegishlash is considered Uber, so I would probably not focus on trying to cover it with a possible Moveset. Given that, Ice, Fighting and a Rock Move (Stone Edge, Rock Slide) is giving it perfect Coverage.

Other than that, I agree with your analyisis, especially if it is for 1.1.7.

Also, I don’t think there is a set of Talonflame that does not run Galewings, but with the possibility of Rock Coverage, a predicted Switch in of Talonflame could easily net you a kill.

Admittedly I didn’t remember that Eviolite was a thing, but Delta Scyther could certainly make at least some use of it. Drain Punch I must’ve missed, and while Aegislash is indeed Uber I was mostly considering Pokemon that’d be able to halt Delta Scyther’s offense.

Other than that, I appreciate the input. Maybe this analysis will be less of a mess once enough people chime in.

I’m not really a fan of using D-Scyther competitively because there are a quite a few common checks such as Slowbro, Azumarill, Talonflame, Scizor, Skarmory, etc. I’m not really sure why you mentioned Talonflame without gale wings, it’s not a thing. As stated above, Aegislash isn’t an issue because it’s in ubers.

If you’re running the Hone Claws set, I would suggest Ice Shard since D-Scyther’s speed isn’t exactly the greatest and is easily revenge killed by the many base 110 speed mons. I agree with your item choices except for the Scope lens + Super Luck set because it seems inconsistent and gimmicky. There’s literally no reason to run Cross Chop over Close Combat, you’re losing out on so much damage and accuracy.

Edit: If/when it gets u-turn, Choice Scarf/Band sounds pretty good on it.

Great post btw

A question related to this topic, is there any reason to run delta scizor over delta scyther? Hustle delta scyther has higher attack and speed than delta scizor. Hustle delta scyther with eviolite is has similar bulk and attack to mega delta scizor but is less easily revenge killed and doesn’t require a mega slot. What benefit is gained from evolving, except possibly killing normal sableye on a switch with scrappy close combat?

Honestly, I wouldn’t use D-Scyther or D-Scizor competitively, but if I had a choice, I would go with D-Scyther for the reasons you already mentioned. D-Scizor is too slow and has bad defensive typing as well

I’d run your calcs again, D-Scyther is an absolute monster. It has 0 safe switch-ins if you can predict right. For example:

252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Scyther Night Slash vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Slowbro: 182-216 (46.1 - 54.8%) – 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Scyther Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 192-227 (57.4 - 67.9%) – guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Scyther Close Combat vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 203-240 (52.8 - 62.5%) – guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Scyther Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Talonflame: 224-264 (75.4 - 88.8%) (icicle crash obviously ko’s)

252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Scyther Close Combat vs. 72 HP / 0 Def Latias: 186-218 (58.3 - 68.3%) – guaranteed 2HKO

Essentially D-Scyther has a bunch of soft checks in the OU-tier and no hard counters. Its big problems, as already mentioned, is its accuracy and typing. If it misses each of the mons posted above have very good chance to OHKO in return. Still if you can get up a hone claws and have already taken out any faster threats this guy will be one of the best sweepers in OU.

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I agree, it’s definitely viable. And I just said checks, not counters. It’s hard to get D-Scyther inside, let alone set up, but if you do so successfully, it can wreak havoc as you already have proven.

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One set that isn’t necessarily good, but fills a niche that someone may have, is this new moon set.

Delta Scyther @ Eviolite/Life orb
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Spe or EVs: 8 HP / 248 Atk / 252 Spe Jolly Nature

  • Close Combat
  • Icicle Crash
  • Hone Claws
  • Night Slash/Ice shard

It gets a neat 2x boost to its attack in addition to perfect accuracy after one turn. It requires a large amount of support but it’s an option if you really, really want to have ice/fighting wallbreaking on your new moon team.

Dunno where to put this, but if the devs made D. Scizor Ice/Fairy, would it be more viable as an option, d’you think?

If Delta Scizor were Ice/Fairy, that typing would be 2X weaknesses to Fire, Poison, and Rock, and a 4X weakness to Steel. While that would be a better defensive typing, it would lose STAB Fighting and replace it with… Play Rough, literally the only Fairy type Physical attack. You could then give it Pixilate as a Mega, I guess? Ice/Fighting isn’t so bad, and at least it isn’t Ice/Bug. (4X weak to Rock AND Fire) Yuck.

It’s already fantastic as a glass cannon. Why should there be any change when its current typing is so offensively amazing and defensively garbage?

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