Double battle problems (contains some spoilers)

I'm in the late game and I'm running into a small problem with the double battle with Nora against Taen while he's trying to summon the Perfect Dragon. Everyone's pokemon are very high leveled, but Nora's pokemon are relatively weak and are quickly crushed by Taen's powerful legendaries, leaving me in a 2 v 1 battle in which I am also crushed.

Though I could take him on myself eventually after grinding some levels, for the future, I would suggest that if you are in a double battle with an ally and all of your ally's pokemon have fainted, you should be able to send in another pokemon from your party, and it would continue on like a regular double battle.

I’ve brought this up before. The general answer you get is that because they didn’t have a problem with it, it is fine.

Though frankly I am convinced this battle is supposed to cement Nora as completely incompetent. She turned a easy-tough battle to a hard-impossible one just by forcing herself into the situation.

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I had no trouble fighting them and I was under leveled

I see a lot of people complaining about Taen destroying Nora on that Double Battle, but all the times I’ve done that fight, Nora always has at least 1-2 pokes left (Flygon and Celebi) because Taen only attacks my pokes, so Nora actually helps me out (especially Doublades’s Destiny Bond) on that battle. Maybe I’m just lucky?

It has a LOT to do with your pokemon composition and somewhat luck.

For example in my run I have to take down Metagross. Meaning Salamence kills Nora first turn. Then I have to take down Typhlosion first with means Salamence also takes down Nora’s next pokemon (her Mega) and if she does survive then all the pokemon are well equipped to take her down.

Now if I had a pokemon that does better in doubles or one based around KOing Taen’s entire team it can be a cake walk.

But rarely have I heard a middle ground of “Tough but fair”. It is either unfair challenge or “easy”

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I basically led with D.Garde, murdered Salamence, switched to D.Muk and E-Quake Luxray and Metagross, then E-Quake Zekrom and M-Typhlosion, and then W-Kyurem is alone.

Taen’s battle made me think about my team and consider options. Once I did that, I was able to take him down with relative ease. Hey, that’s how it’s supposed to be!

I think it’s fine on Normal mode because of Mega Flygon, but I think on hard mode the fight is almost impossible because her pokemon are like 5 levels under Taens, and she doesn’t even have Mega Flygon. Honestly they should just improve his movesets and slightly improve his levels for challenge mode instead of nerfing Nora

The reason this is nonsense though is that… once again. I seriously outclassed Taen in everyway and could have trounced his team under normal circumstances… Whether it was single, double, or triple battle. The only thing I lacked is, as many people here had, a way to sleep my way through the fight (which seems to be the balance here. You either outright counter him in everyway OR this fight is ludicrous)

100% of that fight’s difficulty is on Nora and the fact that she is dead weight.

Nora didn’t make that fight easier she made it tougher simply by being incompetent, for bringing along a poorly balanced team, AND to add insult to injury Taen is built to become more powerful by destroying Nora. Before ultimately getting killed herself and forcing you into a 2v1 scenario.

And her MegaFlygon? Countered by several of the opponent’s pokemon. The only reason Nora has it is because the game developer also thought it would be trounced.

And Narratively is the point of this fight to show how much of a terrible trainer Nora is? To demonstrate that she is the noose around your neck and pulling you down so much that Rivals you beat three times earlier can be a challenge simply by her joining in?

Because if this fight exists PURELY to show how terrible Nora is and make you hate her then Bravo you somehow made her even worse then when she bullied Damien constantly (which yes, I didn’t like Nora before this fight.)

Not even remotely true. Ideally Mega Flygon should outspeed both of Taen’s legendaries and deal massive damage to one or both of them with its movepool. It also has a higher base speed than Mega Typhlosion which is generally the most problematic part of his team or at least it used to be when it spammed Eruption.

In the earliest beta releases of 1.1 this battle was much more balanced with respect to both Taen/Nora’s levels as well as items/movesets that Nora’s Pokemon possessed because I actually made sure that they were set that way while playing through the battle on two different saves. However, at some point suze made the executive decision to increase the difficulty after a bunch of random people said the fight was too easy. So now the fight has more ridiculous restrictions on all difficulties rather than it being more challenging but fair. In addition, the AI was supposed to have been improved during the last update but for whatever reason that didn’t go as planned, so Nora still makes decisions which shouldn’t befit a trainer of her skill level.

I intend to comb over the fights again that took place prior to 1.2 and tweak them so that this absurd level gap isn’t still lingering, though that unfortunately doesn’t resolve the AI being a complete idiot. Also, Easy difficulty should be easier than it currently is; at minimum it should be more similar to what you’d expect from trainers in the core series games, without these competitive movesets that are nearly the same as Normal difficulty. I say that mainly because a lot of people playing this game immediately after finishing ORAS as their first or second Pokemon game, for example, would likely find this fight to be far too difficult even on Easy mode.

Actually, why can’t we just control Nora? I’m sure theirs PROBABLY a way to make that work, if not then oh well Like it wouldn’t make sense but it would make the fight easier.

The only problem I had in this battle was being confused by ninetales in the beginning and I only died once or twice from it. I also used Nora’s pokemon to an advantage because if you use her mons as shields then you can take out the whole team. My pokemon were extremely under leveled in this battle but I won easily.

(Edit: OPPS!!! I thought this was my old thread not the suggestion thread… I’ll keep this post up for transparency sake… But I am sorry for this long and windy post. This is kind of not where it goes.)

(Other Edit: Actually I’ll just take down my entire post. It is just about the situation Flygon is in and how it isn’t ideal)

I still don’t completely get the mindset of designing Nora in this fight. Unless the wiki is mistaken, leftovers on Celebi is exclusive to hard mode, and Doublade doesn’t have eviolite on easy mode. Why is her mega stone the only thing missing? If removing items was to make it harder, then why isn’t it consistent for her other pokemon? Why are her pokemon levels for easy 67 67 67, normal 64 64 64, and hard 66 67 68? If these choices were designed for difficulty, then why do most of them apply for both easy and hard?

The only reason I won this battle on hard mode was because Metagross used earthquake while Mega Typhlosion was on the field, and it ohko. The only other way I could’ve won that battle without that pure rng would be to grind up a team of pseudo legendaries, or just abuse destiny bond while spamming revives. While I do promote difficulty to encourage strategy, this battle to me is almost equal to Fire Emblem Awakening’s Lunatic +. While there are some strategies that take great amounts of consideration to find and execute properly, 99% of players are just going to play lame with their best team member and reset for the right rng.

Its a shame really. I loved the ally double battle concept ever since gen 3’s space center battle. If you really want to force difficulty for this battle, why not balance Nora’s team and copy what that battle did by forcing you to pick three pokemon to battle with? It would hinder the boring strategies by forcing you to make effective use of Nora, while still remaining difficult.

Mega Flygon being in the back means that most of your team would be weakened before it came onto the field, and if you’re worried about it sweeping Taen’s team, I have an idea to stop that. Switch out his Luxray with Donphan (one of the few non ice types that can learn ice shard). That way, you need to weaken his team before Flygon comes out else it gets ohko,

Well in all fairness she HAD to be improved for Hard Mode because if she was still her Normal self… your only recourse would be to have a team that specifically counters Taen (which is usually what people do for this fight, usually inadvertently).

Since well… the opponent would be able to sweep her from the start to the end with just about any of her pokemon. Which they can on normal, but even worse.